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Jul 03, 2006

Comments

philipjohn

Hey, I know how to get rid of the dependancy culture. The government needs to support unionism and decent wages for the working class. Then we could all but do away with benifits, great aye? This is what any responsible government does. Why don't you take a look at any Eupropean county's child abuse statistics, and compare them to free-market economies like New Zealand and the USA. While you're at it take a look at all the social indicators such as sucide, % of people below the poverty line, levels of educational attainment etc. Please show me any statistics that point to a preferance offor a free-market economy.

philipjohn

Hey, I know how to get rid of the dependency culture. The government needs to support unionism and decent wages for the working class. Then we could all but do away with benefits, great aye? This is what any responsible government does. Why don't you take a look at any European county's child abuse statistics, and compare them to free-market economies like New Zealand and the USA. While you're at it take a look at all the social indicators such as suicide, % of people below the poverty line, levels of educational attainment etc. Please show me any statistics that point to a preference off a free-market economy.

sagenz

The poverty line in america is the average wage in new zealand. think about that.

In any system levels of educational attainment will vary. America has a far higher level of tertiary attainment than Germany and a number of other western countries.

sweden is not a good example to use with suicide statistics.

And I strongly disagree with any assertion that New Zealand is a free market economy compared to a european social model. dependency and state interference are higher in nz.

You have an interesting set of views and I would like to debate more. Unfortunately I do not have a whole lot of time.

I suggest you look at what the market achieves and have a little more scepticism towards socialist models. would you rather a bureaucrat make decisions for you or do you prefer to make your own. that is the essence of a socialist model verus a market model in practice.

The poverty line is calculated as 50 % of the average household expenditure. USA has a GDP per Capita of US $41, 000. New Zealand has a GDP per capita of US $25,000. So your finding isn't surprising. The reason your example doesn't stack up is because goods, services and housing are all more expensive in the US. So the US poverty line is only relevant to the US. On that topic, around 25% of people in the US subsist on an income below the poverty line. The average across Europe is 6%.

OK, using suicide probably isn't a good measurement of social well being as the US is full of religious nutters who think that they'll go to hell if they commit suicide, where as Sweden is one of the most secular countries in the world. NZ is similarly secular, so we have a pretty high suicide rate.

I don't doubt that the US has very high levels of tertiary educational attainment, you either have to be rich or receive a scholarship to get to "college". Spending on primary and secondary education on the other hand has slipped by around 25% per student since the mid seventies. I would be interested to see how the US stacks up here. I know that the Scandinavian countries stack up pretty good, but don't know the statistics.

I would also question how much choice there is for lower socio-economic people in a market oriented society. There are reasons that they fall between the gaps more often than middle and upper income earners. I come from very much a lower class background, and although I have exceeded at University and can look foward to a fulfilling life I dare say the majority of people in my social position haven't been so lucky.

Megan Wyllie

I agree with phillipjohn. The working class should be paid more, and benefits should be reduced. One of my teachers (I am in high school) left work because he got more money on the working for families scheme, than working.

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