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Oct 07, 2004

Comments

Idiot/Savant

You are in fact precisely who I was thinking of, and your attempts to excuse rape and serious assaults are simply disgusting.

sagenz

NRT - You are too quick to see the bad side of a culture that has protected you and your ancestors. I have served and I know that the staff were all professional and examplary in their training methods during my 7 years. I am not excusing rape or serious assault. I am deriding the sort of whingers and pc types who will defend the poor "victims" who burglarise assault and terrorise society but are so very quick to blame the army as an institution for a few who fail to understand that the army is about controlled violence.
Read all of Frasers post. I have. An assortment of hearsay half stories and complaining about the pressure. The army dealt with the originally mentioned incident at the time by referring it to CIVILIAN authority. They were not obliged to. Those at the top of the pecking order did not do the brutalising, nor did they ever acquiese. They were responsible for maintaining order and EVERYBODY was there voluntarily. Compulsory Military Training finished in about 1965. Pressure was needed to make sure that you were not surrounded by girlie men who would not stand beside you when it counted.
Perhaps NRT will never understand. When you are next under pressure ask yourself whether you would rather have somebody you can rely on beside you.
We do not need peacenik pricks like Burton and Clark jumping on a bash the army bandwagon.

sagenz

by the way I find it really interesting that you and Just Talk are the ones who go for censorship and supression of free comment and you are supposedly liberals against the VRWC. That is what we are fighting for. Understand that and you might soften your views

hans

You'll never be a real man unless you had your best mate/sergeant major/platoon's cock up your arsehole. Makes you real hard. Trust me on that one.

sagenz

well hans i will have to take your word on that one. what you do in the proviacy of your own home is your business. Just be glad that some are prepared to defend your freedoms, and that is what American soldiers are dying in Iraq for. Don't be ungrateful.

hans

The best and most accurate description of the USMC I have read is "the largest taxpayer funded SM club in the world" (Boyd McDonald).
I simply can't see how raping 17 year old cadets in Waiouru helps defending my freedom. And when you have switched from the 101st Keyboard Brigade to the recruitment office, I hope for you that your drill sergeant is cute.
Oh, BTW, American soldiers aren't dying for my (or Iraqi people's) freedoms in Iraq, only theirs, and neither did Jesus die for my sins, only his.

sagenz

hans Read some of Kagan and think about who is protecting your rights to lead the lifestyle you choose to lead. Hitler executed homosexuals. So did the Taliban. America is a bastion of freedom for many things including the homosexual lifestyle. By extension the British and American fight against those tyrants provides you with your freedoms. If you do not understand that you have not thought it through. Our freedoms do not exist by chance. Ask yourself which of the 3 regimes above you would have lived under
To suggest that the army exists merely as an avenue for perversions is a sick joke masking your lack of any real argument.
Serious allegations of rape and sexual assault should be investigated and should have been brought to the attention of the proper authorities at the time. In the case of the alleged rape I would suggest a commissioned officer medical or otherwise would have dealt differently.
There is a dual command structure that ensures checks on authority.
My point and it stands is to express strong disagreement with the peacenik Burton taking the opportunity to bash the army as an institution by investigating 20 year old allegations.
Fraser himself seems to have served with distinction and lead an admirable life. It is only once he got in the hands of a psychotherapist that he got the idea that what he had done was wrong. Just proves that mindfuck are dangerous

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